so they kept karl rove. >> yes. karl -- see they know that karl rove is going to be a valuables a set in 2014 2016 even if he got it wrong this time around -- >> bill: even if he attacked his own network. >> yes, he is still a relevant political player. sarah palin is not a relevant political player and karl rove is. >> bill: he also know that sarah palin -- when she made the decision that she was not going to run for president in 2012 she did not announce it on fox news. >> yeah. >> bill: why did they hire dennis casinich. >> that's a great question. obviously fox news is conservative, but the number one goal is programming, and roger ailes wants to have people on there to yell at each other. they probably made him an offer that was really good and now they have somebody on there that they can yell at. >> bill: i wonder if they'll give him the opportunity to express his opinions. >> yeah. >> bill: we saw each other last night at the launch of the new, new republic. i don't know how long the new republic has been ar